State lines and PI: to cross or not to cross

Website design By BotEap.comState and IP lines: to cross or not to cross, that is the question. A Shakespearean enigma.

Website design By BotEap.comYour driver’s license is accepted in all 50 states. So is your marriage license. What about your IP license?

Website design By BotEap.comNASIR stated, several years ago, that it hoped that IP licensing would one day be accepted in other states as well. Today this is not so… or it is. keep reading

Website design By BotEap.comIn researching this article, I learned that there are as many opinions on the subject as there are people and there is no real consensus of opinion or understanding of the subject. However, we are looking for facts and laws, not just opinions.

Website design By BotEap.comI spent some time in Texas last year. You can drive for days and not leave that state. Here in New Hampshire I can be in three different states in 60 to 90 minutes. Many residents live here and work across the border. Crossing state lines is a big issue here at the Granite State.

Website design By BotEap.comWhat do you do in surveillance when the subject crosses the border? difficult call. Steve Byers, my good friend and mentor, feels that this is like pursuing a theme in a members-only club, like the American Legion. Surveillance stops at the gate. You have no legal right to enter. The client must be happy with the results and your professionalism. you didn’t pass

Website design By BotEap.comSteve feels the same concept applies when crossing state lines. Stop at the border, unless you have a license there. Many licensing authorities reflect this sentiment. However, this does not make it right… or wrong.

Website design By BotEap.comYour driver’s license is accepted in all states, temporarily, as long as you’re just passing through and don’t live there. Your marriage license is accepted permanently. Why not your IP license?

Website design By BotEap.comLicensing agents here in New England seem to subscribe to the philosophy that a license is required to cross the line to do any part of an investigation.

Website design By BotEap.comA New England licensing agent recently stated, to a licensed PI, that crossing the line and having a “conversation” with a witness was not an investigation, but if you “interviewed” the witness, you were “investigating.” He would explain this further, but I don’t quite get it.

Website design By BotEap.comThere are several possible scenarios: A mobile surveillance where the person unexpectedly crosses the state line. What about a case for a NH attorney? A NH court case and a witness lives across the border? Or the witness lives in NH but his wife tells him that he is at work, in a border state, nearby. He has time to see you today. You go?

Website design By BotEap.comThere are endless opinions and possible solutions. I interact with many IPs in neighboring states. I can pick up a phone and do it. But this doesn’t answer the question. When can you cross a state line?

Website design By BotEap.comDISCUSSION

Website design By BotEap.comSome interesting facts can be found in American Law Reports, 93 ALR 2nd.

Website design By BotEap.comAccording to this compendium of cases, the lawyer who performs a single act, or isolated transactions, in a foreign State,No be considered to be engaged in that occupation, within the scope of the law that requires the license of that occupation.

Website design By BotEap.comThe courts examine intention engage in these activities with any permanence: in other words, offer to contract or “do business” in the foreign state.

Website design By BotEap.comA foreign (out-of-state) corporation/individual, doing a single isolated business act, with no purpose of doing any other act there, does not fall within the provisions of a statute that requires foreign companies to meet specific conditions before be allowed to do business within the state.

Website design By BotEap.com“Doing business” is carrying on any particular trade or profession.

Website design By BotEap.comAccording to data from 93 ALR 2nd: before a single or some isolated operations, the Court, in reality, determines the intent of the individual. This is apparently to differentiate the intent to complete a task from the intent to “do business” or attempt to do business in the foreign state.

Website design By BotEap.comSTATE BY STATE

Website design By BotEap.comthe Department of Security in New Hampshire has stated that one must have a license in New Hampshire, period, to enter the state in any investigation.

Website design By BotEap.comIowa is a bit more flexible. To determine the jurisdiction they apply a more flexible approach:

Website design By BotEap.com“The Department will consider the following factors in determining jurisdiction. The types of activities that, by themselves, are not considered to show jurisdiction in Iowa include, but are not limited to, the following:

Website design By BotEap.com(1) A private investigation business outside of Iowa works on a criminal, civil, or administrative case that originates and is filed in another state, but contains some investigative elements in Iowa.”

Website design By BotEap.comIn North Dakota they have not had to review these types of scenarios, having to cross a state line to finish a commission. They assured me, in their letter, that each case would be independently reviewed by the Board. The board believes that it would be better “for an investigator to meet our licensing requirements before such an occurrence occurs.”

Website design By BotEap.comVermont states that you must obtain a transient permit (temporary license) before entering the state. I did this once. The client needed the information as soon as possible and wanted me to get it. It took 30 days to get the permit. I’m not complaining by the way. I have several friends in Vermont who are on the Regulatory Board. I think they have the best system in the country. I used it as a model when writing our legislative proposal to reform the system in NH.

Website design By BotEap.comKentucky did not answer the question. They provided me with a copy of their licensing law, but did not address the issue directly.

Website design By BotEap.comConnecticut also didn’t answer the question, stating that they can’t provide legal advice and recommending that I read their laws…which don’t address the issue. If you need to go to Ct. Don’t bother calling I guess.

Website design By BotEap.comINDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES

Website design By BotEap.comA licensed NH investigator ended up in Vermont in a W/C case, having unexpectedly followed the claimant from Claremont, NH. He tapped on the claimant involved in very strenuous activity in Vermont. The case ended up in court and the question of its legality was challenged by the plaintiff’s lawyer. The judge ruled I WAS legal due to the circumstances. The investigator was: Hired in NH, by an NH attorney, to monitor someone whose legal address was in NH. There was no way for the investigator to know that the claimant had purchased land in VT and was digging to begin building a home. The IP was not “doing business” in Vermont.

Website design By BotEap.comCloser to home is the experience of my colleague Jim Collins from Massachusetts. I have known him for many years and he is the type of person who “plays by the rules” but ran afoul of the licensing authorities and prevailed.

Website design By BotEap.comIt was a disaster dealing with Florida authorities, mostly ex-police officers from the Florida licensing division, Jim told me.

Website design By BotEap.comThe most informed and reasonable person he met was an attorney general who agreed with his arguments and dismissed both cases, eventually dismissing them.

Website design By BotEap.comIn one case, a subject was followed from Massachusetts to Florida. Later, Jim tried the Probate Court during his divorce. The wife had started an affair with a younger man from another state and they met in Florida. Her lawyer made a big deal, in court, about Jim not having a Florida license.

Website design By BotEap.comJim wasn’t sure when he started where she would end up and thought (from information provided by the client) that she might go to Virginia, where her supposed lover lived.

Website design By BotEap.comHis attorney “reported” him to the Florida Department. of State and handed them his investigative report that worked its way into the record in Massachusetts.

Website design By BotEap.comThe Massachusetts judge reviewed the Florida statute and agreed that Jim was not violating Florida law at all, since he was not “operating” a business in Florida. The judge noted that Florida citizens couldn’t even find him in Florida to hire him, since he had no advertisements, phone lists, or office.

Website design By BotEap.comThe Massachusetts judge said the main reason for “business licenses” is to protect the public from unqualified people. Jim’s Massachusetts license took care of that.

Website design By BotEap.comJim is regulated by Massachusetts, the judge said, so the people here who can find and hire him are protected by the Massachusetts licensing authority.

Website design By BotEap.comThe Probate and Family Court Judge allowed all of his testimony in that case. This reduced (by at least $50,000.00) the divorce settlement proceeds received by the subject. She and her boyfriend got back at him, filing complaints and lawsuits against her 1,500 miles away in Florida. Jim prevailed. He was not operating a business in Florida.

Website design By BotEap.comThe other case began at Mass. and ended up in New Jersey. A disability case worth millions and one day after a plea, subject suddenly boarded a plane and Jim’s investigator followed her to Florida. Should she have bailed out or just given up on the task?

Website design By BotEap.comThey reported it when he tested in a statement. He tried out in Massachusetts and in New Jersey.

Website design By BotEap.comBoth parties were upset and lost millions of dollars (if not millions) due to these investigations. So they vengefully filed complaints with Florida authorities. Hell has no fury…

Website design By BotEap.comBy the way, while “guests” in Florida, they checked in with all the local police departments, with Massachusetts PI IDs and couldn’t have been treated better.

Website design By BotEap.comAccording to Jim(just like the TV show):

Website design By BotEap.com“The main reason we prevailed was always our strong case that we ‘didn’t run a detective business in Florida.'” The judges kept coming back to that point. We don’t have special police powers to do the things we do, the IP license is just a business license.

Website design By BotEap.comThe Florida judge noted that when he was a lawyer, he often left the state to take depositions and that he was not licensed as a lawyer in the foreign state. The tasks we were completing in Florida, searching public records, monitoring someone’s activities, investigating, taking pictures in a public area, in themselves do not require a special license. Many others do those same tasks and do not have a special license. The IP license is to “run a private detective’s business in Florida,” which the judges said we weren’t doing.”

Website design By BotEap.comIf this sounds ridiculous to you, consider this: Jim’s firm was “doing business” in Massachusetts in a Massachusetts-based case. He was visiting Florida to complete the task.

Website design By BotEap.comCONCLUSION

Website design By BotEap.comWhile researching this article, I posted on many IP lists expecting to receive a large number of responses. I have very few.

Website design By BotEap.comThis is a problem that doesn’t affect all of us, but it could affect many of us. If the circumstance comes to our own doorstep, I think it is important that we are aware of the problem, the potential problems, and how it is viewed by courts and licensing authorities.

Website design By BotEap.comIt is obvious that the courts view this differently than most licensing agents. Licensing agents apparently need to be educated and that is our job. Licensing is designed to protect the public by keeping unqualified individuals out of the profession, not to keep them from crossing state lines.

Website design By BotEap.comOn the surface, crossing a State border is different from “doing business” in the foreign State.

Website design By BotEap.comEach state has different licensing standards. This could be a piece of the puzzle. Some do not require a license and in Rhode Island each town/city issues the license. They have debates, from time to time, about the validity of the license in other cities and towns.

Website design By BotEap.comPerhaps in the future we will see more consistency in licensing standards and this will help alleviate this problem.